spin off from blog about working dog

[kumhomomma]

Working dog is a term used her ALOT,now tell me what work is in your book? TO ME work is when dog does something to improve work conditions such as Kenya being a police dog or the dogs going to hospitals and nursing homes.To me work is something a dog does to better or help others.Old times they had mill dogs who turned cranks and currently ranch dogs who keep up the animals.Now weight pull and so forth to me is not work.Thats play and exercise.How does pulling weight better a dog? I mean just because you dog can pull a cart doesn't mean he should breed anymore then my dog who a family pet.I know this will prob. fire people up but please keep it civil please this is a honest question not picking at any one person.

[Leon]

For a dog, work is defined by doing what the dog was bred or meant to do. Of course a dog can do something that it is not bred to do, because all dogs are capable of doing certain things, some are just better than others.

Since dog fighting is illegal, pit bulls aren't bred for that. So in order to maintain gameness which is the characteristic of the breed, something that was once tested in the pit, gameness is now tested in competition sports, like weight pull.

How does weight pull better the dog? First of all, its exercise, it helps tone the muscles and keep the dog fit, and secondly it takes a lot of heart and drive to pull. If your dog can pull, and shows a lot of heart and determination, it is far more proven than your family pet which still has to ability to weight pull as any pit, but has not proven it. You only breed proven dogs, this goes for ANY breed. If they can prove themselves in what where bred to do, they can be bred.

Ofcourse, being a community working dog is also work, but unless that dog was bred to do that task and it excels in that task, it has not proven its worth to be bred.

[kumhomomma]

I just questioning how it proved itself.SO its a drive thing.But now im gunna spin this question a touch...why are bullies being used as weight pull dogs and the pull being used such as a "drive/game" test but people dont like to think of them as game breed and say game been breed out so why still pull them?

[Dansgrizz]

why not pull them? They are mostly pit bull so why not test them? If work is what matters and you feel bullies would benefit from a healthier more functional breeding test other than it's looks. Then working a bully is what needs to be done. The only reason why bullies are so unhealthy is someone took short cuts. They could have made their big impressive size count for something if they started with better stock. Maybe it's pointless to try and fix what is broken but working a dog from primarily working blood is a great way to test it's salt.

Although going to hospitals and being a k9 are noble tasks the breed was not intended for such "work". One of the best ways to test drive, endurance, and it's ability to persevere is WP. That and hog hunting and catch work are as close as we come legally to improving the breed while not breaking laws.

[buzhunter]

There's only one way to test a dog period. No way around that. I agree with what Kat is saying but I in no way intend to belittle sports that people enjoy with their pets. Been working my ass off since I was very young. Trust me, I know the difference lol. Work is work. Fun is fun.

[Dansgrizz]

There's only one way to test a dog period. No way around that. I agree with what Kat is saying but I in no way intend to belittle sports that people enjoy with their pets. Been working my ass off since I was very young. Trust me, I know the difference lol. Work is work. Fun is fun.


There's only one way to test a game bred APBT....
Times are changing and some feel the pit bull needs to stay as intact as possible while still being able to test it somehow.

[Leon]

You can pull any dog, pit bulls aren't the only ones who are used for weight pull. Other popular breeds, are huskies, rottweilers, american bulldogs...etc. And gameness can be found in any animal, or even humans. Its just that other dogs are not bred for it or have it as their characteristic trait. You can find a game yorkie if you looks for it, but they will be in vast minority. Pits are just on average a lot more gamer than most other breeds.

A bully is still a pitbull, and they might not be as game as a APBT, but they are still on average a lot more gamer than other dogs. But bullies arent bred for game, they are bred for looks/conformation. So i think for a bully to be bred, it needs to prove itself in the conformation ring. Weight pulling is just a bonus.

How they proves themselves...well just by actually working the dog, the dog has proven itself more than the family pet who has done nothing. And by actually competing with other dogs in weight pull, and winning. It has shown it better than the other dogs, and definitely much better than your family pet.

[Dansgrizz]

gameness is NOT found in any animal!

[Dansgrizz]

99.9% animals have a fight or flight reaction! They will not stand and fight to the death for no better reason than because they love to. Gameness is elusive in APBTs and frankly most people are cowards deep down. A badger is quite onry but has an instinct to live!! APBT instinct to live has been bred out by it's instinct to overcome any obstacle. You can say a gamecock is game but hens don't fight and certain times of the year males won't either! So there gameness has variables.

[Dansgrizz]

I don't know if you've ever seen a multibreed weight pull leon, but no dog pulls like a pit bill. The determination on their eyes makes you want to cry. It's beautiful.


Btw this thread isn't a debate about gameness.

[kumhomomma]

gameness is NOT found in any animal!

BULLSHIT....take a dog food..and any animal gets "game" quickly

[Dansgrizz]

You are severely confused on what gameness is. Please be more civil this is a debate not a bar fight.

[buzhunter]

Dogs are still tested in the traditional way all over the world. What makes a pit bull a pit bull will never change. Just because the majority of pit bull owners in the USA are taking a different route by no means changes the APBT. It only means that we are not interested in preserving our own breed. Crazy, huh?

[kumhomomma]

So is a dog pulling weight the same as a sled? Kumho pulls shit all time but not on track(mainly because I can't find anyone around me with anything but his chain or so bully they cant pull anything).So does that make him less of a pitbull then say one with ribbon or just less proved?

[Dansgrizz]

it is crazy buz!! On the other hand these places all over the world come to the US for game stock. Crazy at it seems some people want a faithful to the death dog but don't want to support dog fighting. They chose other ways of "testing" their animals.

[kumhomomma]

You are severely confused on what gameness is. Please be more civil this is a debate not a bar fight.

Civil..i called bullshit that IS civil
NONE The less many dogs pull sleds hell huskey a GREAT example but that done mean they are "game"

[kumhomomma]

none the less if pits were made to fight/game then how are we contributing to the breed by running out the game in the lines?

[Dansgrizz]

So is a dog pulling weight the same as a sled? Kumho pulls shit all time but not on track(mainly because I can't find anyone around me with anything but his chain or so bully they cant pull anything).So does that make him less of a pitbull then say one with ribbon or just less proved?

well if he hasn't competed he hasn't proven anything. Competing is proving your dog against other dogs. Those titles mean that your dog IS/WAS the best.

[Leon]

gameness is NOT found in any animal!

A completely ignorant statement. Any animal is CAPABLE of exhibiting game given the right circumstance. Let me give you a hint...there is a REASON people fight other animals, ever heard of the term gamecock dan?

[Dansgrizz]

If you have a dog pulling 10,000 lbs at it's struggling but still wants to pull til he breaks himself. It don't mean he's game, but yes one helll of a dog.

[Dansgrizz]

A completely ignorant statement. Any animal is CAPABLE of exhibiting game given the right circumstance. Let me give you a hint...there is a REASON people fight other animals, ever heard of the term gamecock dan?

No leon it's not an ignorant statement and if you read the previous posts I already covered the game cock.

[Dansgrizz]

A completely ignorant statement. Any animal is CAPABLE of exhibiting game given the right circumstance. Let me give you a hint...there is a REASON people fight other animals, ever heard of the term gamecock dan?

No leon , instinctually animals want to live rather than die. It's a will to survive. You need to do more research into what game is and what it isn't. Food aggression isn't game, DA isn't game, defending a kill, or fighting for a mate or territory isn't game.

[kumhomomma]

but on the same steps I will reward a dog who lets my kids play dress up with him,yep dresses and makeup and all..lets my kid ride him as a horse(i stop them BUT he goes back for more).Lay with me and my kids,love being used as a pillow.Looking back at the images of pitbulls as family dogs contribute to the breed far more then creating a dog who can pull 10000 pounds.Thats my view I think temperment breeding would help pitbull image far more then breeding for "gameness".I know thats not a promise that 2 calm dogs will make a calm dog but i know 2 game dogs add more game which leads to either arrest because some idiot got there hands on them or deaths because once again idiots got this dog and didnt take time to handle it correctly.

[smokey_joe]

A completely ignorant statement. Any animal is CAPABLE of exhibiting game given the right circumstance. Let me give you a hint...there is a REASON people fight other animals, ever heard of the term gamecock dan?



I'm a little country Kentucky girl and trust me there are game-cocks. You think people are crazy about these dogs, you should see the money rednecks spend on stupid chickens. Their roosters are worth more than their pick-ups.

When the rooster is about to die they'll jump in and suck the blood out trying to save them. Crazy stuff. I've never been to a fight b/c I don't want to watch something like that, but I've heard stories.

So ya, APBT's aren't the only game animals out there. Roosters will not only fight till death, they'll run around (nerves) after death. Tell me that ain't game.

[Dansgrizz]

where do you think your dogs great temperment came from?

[Dansgrizz]

I'm a little country Kentucky girl and trust me there are game-cocks. You think people are crazy about these dogs, you should see the money rednecks spend on stupid chickens. Their roosters are worth more than their pick-ups.

When the rooster is about to die they'll jump in and suck the blood out trying to save them. Crazy stuff. I've never been to a fight b/c I don't want to watch something like that, but I've heard stories.

So ya, APBT's aren't the only game animals out there. Roosters will not only fight till death, they'll run around (nerves) after death. Tell me that ain't game.

please read above post on gamecocks the information comes from more than hearing stories about blood sucking.

[Leon]

No leon it's not an ignorant statement and if you read the previous posts I already covered the game cock.

You are discrediting the gamecock of their traits because of their biological behavior. Once again ridiculous. Firstly, who cares about Hens, its about gamecock, and how they are bred for cockfighting. yes they dont fight in certain times of the year, but thats biology, and it has nothing to do with game.

No leon , instinctually animals want to live rather than die. It's a will to survive. You need to do more research into what game is and what it isn't. Food aggression isn't game, DA isn't game, defending a kill, or fighting for a mate or territory isn't game.

Game is something you show. You can show gameness while defending a kill or any of those senario's. Gameness is the will to preserver against any odds, regardless of life or death.

[Dansgrizz]

Btw I rooster will also mount it's opponent after battle trying to copulate. The aggression is sexual, hens don't fight but there's been plenty of game bitch apbt. Nuetering a Gambeed APBT does nothing to it's gameness though it may be a hard fight due to lower testosterone.

[smokey_joe]

please read above post on gamecocks the information comes from more than hearing stories about blood sucking.


You really are clueless.

[Dansgrizz]

you can exhibit signs of fearlessness but that doesn't mean an animal Is game.

[kumhomomma]

This is not my post i could care less about cock...get on topic

[Dansgrizz]

You really are clueless.

This is a debate if you aren't intelligent enough to contribute don't post....

[kumhomomma]

debate ON WORK NOT COCK

[kumhomomma]

You really are clueless.

I can't reputation u for 24 hours but remind me I OWE U! LMAO

[Dansgrizz]

I've said everything I want. Nice topic kat.

[smokey_joe]

99.9% animals have a fight or flight reaction! They will not stand and fight to the death for no better reason than because they love to. Gameness is elusive in APBTs and frankly most people are cowards deep down. A badger is quite onry but has an instinct to live!! APBT instinct to live has been bred out by it's instinct to overcome any obstacle. You can say a gamecock is game but hens don't fight and certain times of the year males won't either! So there gameness has variables.


Any animal's gameness has variables. Gameness can only be tested once, by definition. There is absolutely no way to prove that the dog would exhibit the same trait under any other circumstances, b/c to be labled as game, the dog has to be willing to fight "till death." You have to be faced with death to be labled game.

[smokey_joe]

This is a debate if you aren't intelligent enough to contribute don't post....


I wasn't aware you were a mod and had the authority to tell me what I could or couldn't post. :rolleyes:

Considering you didn't even start this post, you sure are bossy.

[smokey_joe]

debate ON WORK NOT COCK


But cock is more fun than work. lol :D

[kumhomomma]

and being that the "game" dog are breathing that NOT THE ISSUE HERE NOW ON TOPIC PEOPLES............lmao i seriously wanna know how u feel about term WORK

[kumhomomma]

But cock is more fun than work. lol :D

BUT U talking about working cock and sucking it not in a fun way we leave that in CHAT..lmao now take it on topic before it gets lost in someone land...which will then force it closed..=0(

[Leon]

you can exhibit signs of fearlessness but that doesn't mean an animal Is game.

Its drive coupled with fearlessness that makes the animal game. And if you think other animals don't have the drive and fearlessness, your simply wrong.

[smokey_joe]

I think work has a lot of different meanings.

Some say that sports are just for fun, but to the dog, it is work. They have no idea that the stamina and strength they exhibit are only for "fun." They only know that they are working hard and making their owners happy. They have no idea that they are not contributing to the household. They think that they are just as important as a farming dog.

[kumhomomma]

People i dont care about game its work we should be belly ache over

[kumhomomma]

thanks
now come the spin off of the spin off..be ready lmao

[buzhunter]

Work is necessary, fun is not. That's pretty much how I would put it in a nutshell.

As far as "game" animals of any species are concerned, it's something that has to be selected for and refined intentionally by humans. Nature will never create a self-destructive animal. Survival of the fittest is the law. Gameness has no definition. What one guy calls "gameness" another guy will laugh at. When one guy sees his dog do what he expects him to do, he may call him game enough. While another guy may need to see more. Eye of the beholder.

[Dansgrizz]

Work is necessary, fun is not. That's pretty much how I would put it in a nutshell.

As far as "game" animals of any species are concerned, it's something that has to be selected for and refined intentionally by humans. Nature will never create a self-destructive animal. Survival of the fittest is the law. Gameness has no definition. What one guy calls "gameness" another guy will laugh at. When one guy sees his dog do what he expects him to do, he may call him game enough. While another guy may need to see more. Eye of the beholder.

yah but having fun is hard work ;)

[buzhunter]

Haha sometimes. My idea of fun is peace and quiet lol.

[Dansgrizz]

lazy boys and bbqs.... :).... And bull dogs of course!!

[buzhunter]

I'm ready! Ain't doing shit today!

[Dansgrizz]

Lol I'm just bbqin and playing with spring n flirtpoles... Now that's fun!! I guess it could be work because for me it's a necessity to keep my dogs in shape. I won't own a fat lazy dog.

[kumhomomma]

i got lazy but missing the fat so its all good..