any one worried

[infinity]

Any one worried that if they tried this sport, that once unleashed instead of running off the dock and jumping to retrieve a toy, that the dog would instead run off the dock and jump to get to the nearest dog in there sight.

I have seen dogs that even if you threw a hot off the grill steak into the water the dog would still be more interested in other dogs around them.

How do they work the rotation of the dogs? Is it only one dog in the building at a time? That would be the only way I would even consider unleashing my dog.

[Dansgrizz]

I have this problem with maverick on the track, if he so much as sees a dog on the way to the track he won't pull and keeps fixating on the dog. I'm glad he's harnessed in, I think as his DA increases he will squirm out the harness. I have to strategically place mavs crate, keep it covered until the lastinute and time my trip to the track perfectly... I wouldnt risk dock jumping with mav cuz mavs too damn fast and he fixates on dogs far more than the task at hand. Plus, although dock jumping is "fun" it proves nothing in my eyes about the APBT.

[George Bailey]

Good question, and one should consider this before participating in the sport. There's a risk in any organized dog sport. This is a new sport, still being developed. It's also an expensive sport and thus has been opened up to the general public. In the local club, I understand they are trying to make it safer, but accidents can still happen, especially when people have no obedience training under their belt.

At the last competition here, a dog got loose on the dock while my friend's dog was up. Because she's not a totally hot dog, and has years of obedience training, her owner was able to keep her under control while the other owner got their dog off the dock. A year ago, while waiting in line, she did bite a dog whose owner let it get in her face, hard enough to make it bleed. She's also not one that people are likely to start screaming pit bull about.

Theoretically, drive will be channeled into whatever sport you are involved in, even obedience. It's always the other guy you have to look out for.

George Bailey

[George Bailey]

This doesn't have anything to do with dock, but rather dog sports in general.
In 1986, the AKC considered having a mandatory rule that all dogs must have a CD before competing in agility, but the almighty dollar won out. In the beginning, almost all agility dogs had an obedience background. Today, most agility trials are crowded, there are many noisy, reactive dogs, and a high rate of failure. Had the ruling passed, I believe the sport would have looked quite different today, with more controlled dogs and far less failure.

George Bailey

[green machine]

I have this problem with maverick on the track, if he so much as sees a dog on the way to the track he won't pull and keeps fixating on the dog. I'm glad he's harnessed in, I think as his DA increases he will squirm out the harness. I have to strategically place mavs crate, keep it covered until the lastinute and time my trip to the track perfectly... I wouldnt risk dock jumping with mav cuz mavs too damn fast and he fixates on dogs far more than the task at hand. Plus, although dock jumping is "fun" it proves nothing in my eyes about the APBT.

Angus is the same way, with dogs on the track. or if he catches eye of a dog, he will pull off the track trying to get to the other dog.

[chris mercer]

You never know what your dog is going to do, hopefully you will have gone through some preliminary testing before hand. Julie, of course some basic ob should be expected if not required after all it is the foundation of dog/handler communication. How else do you train? I know I have seen folks in a hurry to get into a sport they think they love but having problems as they are teaching or correcting one behavior after another in stead of laying a foundation at home. What Julie said about channeling drive ( in this case towards that bumper ) should have them focused enough and ob should do the rest, well some good luck. After all in Schutzund many a dog may be loose on the field doing a test while the other is on a stay on the field. Truthfully they aren't as amped up as they would be in dock diving. There is a Amstsaff at ther Tidewater club, I know, not a pit.

Chris Mercer

[kg420]

I can totally see the concern here. I am not worried about this with my boy. The dock diving club we are going to be taking classes with is at a lake and all dogs not on the dock are to be crated period. They also must be walked to the dock on leash. My boy has always been great with other dogs I have not seen DA in him so far. Another thing is we worked very hard with obedience and mastering distractions. On our daily walk we go by a house that always has 4 dogs slamming into the fence growling and he is always focused on me and not the other dogs.
I do agree this sport is not for all dogs, but I have seen quite a few pits doing it that were so well trained and kickin some butt out there. I guess it all depends on each dog individually.

[RileyRoo]

for one, If you watch the video's and read the rules of the sport the dogs are on leads at ALL times and you can stand as far away from the others as you want to avoid issues. ON the dock they have a gate that goes around it where the dogs are running. It has a door where they close it to keep the dog inside. the pool is also too wide for a dog to fully leap to the side and clear even at full speed it would be slowed by the mid air turn and most likely hit the side of the pool and hurt itsself before clearing it where someone would grab it before it even made it to the other dog and even then if they flew off the side the dog would hurt itsself and by the time it righted on its paws someone would have grabbed it. there would be 0 chance for the dog to be able to get at another dog and if the dog is clearly unruley they are asked to leave. A club wouldn't allow the dog to continue with practice if it acted up even a dog that barks for 5 mins or more at a practice would be asked to leave.

example:

YouTube- American Staffordshire-Pit bull Primo 20 foot Jump - Splash Dogs

YouTube- Finley Jumping at Dock Dogs

SO, if you have a DA dog it wouldn't even be accepted by the local club and would never make it to competitions. These dogs are trained to dive they focus on THE toy rather than the happenings.



The Dock Size:
40ft long

The Pool:
40ft maybe a tad longer. it is 4 to 5ft deep and it holds 20,500 to 33,000 of water in it.

I do agree that the sport isnot for everyone like any sport but they make it as safe as possible.
(If there were a fight that would be a rare happening since again..unruley dogs are asked to leave and IF you knew your dog was DA your club could help you out and know how to handle it.)

[Dansgrizz]

FOR ONE!! ;)

I kinda find this foul and I don't know why you'd belong to such a club

" SO, if you have a DA dog it wouldn't even be accepted by the local club and would never make it to competitions. These dogs are trained to dive they focus on THE toy rather than the happenings. "

being trained to dive has nothing to do with the instinct of the apbt.

[infinity]

I really didn't want to turn this into a debate. Was just wondering if game breed dog owners would worry about unleashing there dog for it to participate.

And what if any safety precautions are put into place to prevent mishaps.

This may not be a sport for hot game breed dogs and that's ok, game breed owners are used to being excluded from alot of dog type event's. It comes with the territory of being responsible. Like not going to dog park and I could go on and on.

That's not to mean the sport is not good for any bully breed. Am staffs seem to excel at the sport. I imagine certain bully's could excel at this sport. The ones that can jump that is. maybe even some petbulls would do great.

If your dog is capable, then doing any thing positive with it is better than doing nothing. :)

[kg420]

I totally see your point here guys. Personally I think my boy would do great at it. He has never been hot and has always got along with all kinds of other dog including APBT's and bullies. He is very obedient and has mastered distractions so I feel that he can do this and will really excel. This is not a sport for all dogs though for real.

[Howardpit1]

Yes, a lot of the issues can be handled with proper training. That is my biggest problem with most dog sports: agility and weightpull included. People attempt the trials without any training, or with dogs they can not control. A dog also needs to be "proofed." That means after you think your dog is ready, and has the control to compete, pair up with a friend or partner and work your dog around them. That way if the dog is focusing on them instead of the work, they are not ready to compete.

It also starts as pups. When you are training/imprinting the dog/pup, you correct the dog aggression then. My dogs do not have to like other dogs, but they have to ignore them when working. I see so many people let there dogs fire up on other dogs as pups, and then can't control them as adults, especially if they attend a lot of ADBA shows where it is encouraged.

I have as good a gambred dogs as anyone, but I don't allow them to "act a fool" in public. I am a firm beleiver, that I could take Zebo, Chinaman, or Jeep, do some training on them, then walk them through a building without them firing up on another dog.

I am not saying that then I could let them run free and play with other dogs, but that is another story. Many people feel it's cool or makes there dog look tough to come into a place with the dog all screaming and barking, but it just re-enforces the opionion that people already have about our breed. Don't get me wrong, my dogs do not have perfect manners, but they are controllable.

[dixieland]

All great questions!But in the end after thinking about it,I'm with Infinity.I think that any way you can show your dog in a positive light to outside people who may not otherwise be looking at an apbt is good.Better then doing nothing at all.

[RileyRoo]

I believe anything that sheds light on our breed in a positive mannor..whether it be wp,agility,hunting,dockdiving,flyball,freestyle and so forth should be smiled upon because we all know these dogs need it. it changes the views on all dog lovers when they see an apbt doing a sport other breeds do and do it ten times better.

[chris mercer]

In a breed that has become over popular and for the wrong reason by the uninformed perception is very important. Years ago I had heard of this viscous, jaw locking won't release you till lighting strikes dog, the Pit. The first one I met was at my brothers clinic a smallish friendly dog that from a standing position launched itself straight up and kissed my face before returning to the floor. I asked what in the world was this little athlete, he laughingly said ;that killer breed the pit. So much for the unwarranted reputation. I couldn't agree with RileyRoo more. If your dog isn't in control or is dog aggressive it shouldn't be in public any way. If it may be DA keep it out of the competitors faces and as a professional they should do the same. Why is it that there are those that think their dogs must be nose and ass sniffing buddies of other dogs. Know your dog, if it goes after dogs at a Dock Diving or Agility, whether it be a Poodle or pit leave it home.

Chris Mercer

[infinity]

In a breed that has become over popular and for the wrong reason by the uninformed perception is very important. Years ago I had heard of this viscous, jaw locking won't release you till lighting strikes dog, the Pit. The first one I met was at my brothers clinic a smallish friendly dog that from a standing position launched itself straight up and kissed my face before returning to the floor. I asked what in the world was this little athlete, he laughingly said ;that killer breed the pit. So much for the unwarranted reputation. I couldn't agree with RileyRoo more. If your dog isn't in control or is dog aggressive it shouldn't be in public any way. If it may be DA keep it out of the competitors faces and as a professional they should do the same. Why is it that there are those that think their dogs must be nose and ass sniffing buddies of other dogs. Know your dog, if it goes after dogs at a Dock Diving or Agility, whether it be a Poodle or pit leave it home.

Chris Mercer
Well said, the only problem is there are events "breed specific" event's where DA is understood and there for extra safety precautions are put into place. Try any ADBA sanctioned events. We have conformation where the dog never gets unleashed and weight pull where the dog is harnessed into a extremely heavy cart that has a person holding the end of it.

This is a all breed event, and some of us would be worried if the same safety precautions are in place for DA dogs. But I think the point has been made that this isn't the sport for DA APBT's.

[chris mercer]

If in these events that the dogs aren't unleashed or come out of harness on the grounds then this is the way it should be. No problem. I understand there are certain situations where common sense and caution over rule our believe that ob will, in a perfect world and a perfect trainer control this. Each dog is different even in the same breed and as handler we choose the type we desire, perhaps more DA or less depending on the need. Does this mean they will have less drive, I think not, just different. Your point is well taken. I wouldn't take my coon hounds to a coon petting zoo.

Chris Mercer

[infinity]

I wouldn't take my coon hounds to a coon petting zoo.
LOL that's funny I was just thinking along the lines of. That would be like taking a bird dog to a bird sanctuary. Then I see you posted that. They say great minds think alike.:)

[Dansgrizz]

Doing dock diving may "promote a positive image" for the breed but we also must educate the public. If people start think that DA and the APBT don't go hand in hand then we are going to even have bigger problems on our hands. I wholeheartedly agree that some dogs are best left out of the public eye, SOME DOGS. Every DA dog to be left out of the public eye? Some way to spread awareness.... The DA and the APBT eventually will have to be accepted by the public TOGETHER, or one of two things will happen. The breed will go extinct because people will tolerate neither, or everyone will have dog friendly APBTs which will go against it's basic "type" at which point we can call them something else. Positive image, great! Representing the APBT as something it's not, horrible.

[DeidreM]

Good question, and one should consider this before participating in the sport. There's a risk in any organized dog sport. This is a new sport, still being developed. It's also an expensive sport and thus has been opened up to the general public. In the local club, I understand they are trying to make it safer, but accidents can still happen, especially when people have no obedience training under their belt.

At the last competition here, a dog got loose on the dock while my friend's dog was up. Because she's not a totally hot dog, and has years of obedience training, her owner was able to keep her under control while the other owner got their dog off the dock. A year ago, while waiting in line, she did bite a dog whose owner let it get in her face, hard enough to make it bleed. She's also not one that people are likely to start screaming pit bull about.

Theoretically, drive will be channeled into whatever sport you are involved in, even obedience. It's always the other guy you have to look out for.

George Bailey

And if you expect a focused reliable retrieve you have to train for it, not just leave it to whim that the dog will or will not retrieve, steak or not. No shortcuts. Thanks Julie for mentioning Obedience.

[DeidreM]

In a breed that has become over popular and for the wrong reason by the uninformed perception is very important. Years ago I had heard of this viscous, jaw locking won't release you till lighting strikes dog, the Pit. The first one I met was at my brothers clinic a smallish friendly dog that from a standing position launched itself straight up and kissed my face before returning to the floor. I asked what in the world was this little athlete, he laughingly said ;that killer breed the pit. So much for the unwarranted reputation. I couldn't agree with RileyRoo more. If your dog isn't in control or is dog aggressive it shouldn't be in public any way. If it may be DA keep it out of the competitors faces and as a professional they should do the same. Why is it that there are those that think their dogs must be nose and ass sniffing buddies of other dogs. Know your dog, if it goes after dogs at a Dock Diving or Agility, whether it be a Poodle or pit leave it home.

Chris Mercer

And you with the hounds, how do they keep their heads when hunting coon? I've never heard you speak of fights during competitions, though I have heard you talk about having to break them up in your own front yard!

[DeidreM]

Chris, this was the same for when I first met 2 Pits back in the late 70's. They came running out of a house I was helping renovate. They lepe at my face like some huskies have and I never thought twice about being afraid though I might well have gotten a hard bop by their snouts.Does anyone use such a word anymore?
It turned out that one of these dogs had indeed menaced the neighborhood and was living with a wired up jaw. I can't remember the demeanor of the other dog. These were untrained dogs for sure, but I never perceived them to bea threat.

[DeidreM]

Was this Chewie you were talking about? Chewie who is indeed gamey but knows well the ropes when being asked to do a task? She's a pro at article retrieve, send outs, word recognition, a wide range of trained behaviors, and various dog sports including doc diving.

[DeidreM]

That question was for you Julie.

[George Bailey]

Yes, the point I was making was that even a well trained dog can react if put in the right situation, and that you have to be vigilant of other people not watching their dogs at all times.

George Bailey

[chris mercer]

Dan I think the fear of the pit becoming another breed because of the need for public acceptance is a threat that all breeds risk. Just look at the breed descriptions of most of the AKC dogs. Take down lions, out run gazzelles, make good mid wives. These dogs haven't had any of these traits for century's. The pit may be one of the exceptions because it was used for the intended use. They are dogs, know them and use them with sense. Certainly the pit isn't for every one and as you imply ;what got them here if taken away makes them a different breed. Dogs may have originated from wild stock but they are a far way from it, we have bred them for our use.
Deidre, yes, I have heard rumors of my dogs fighting. It was poor management. Like Howard said training can solve most problems but some are out of our control. I have a breed where DA is a NO-NO. Not because we don't like blood but because it is inefficient. You can't control these dogs once they are out of your sight and if they are going to brawl and get themselves killed we dispose of the trouble maker. Yes, I have a dog with one ear shorter than the other. That was my fault.
As far as control at a competition event like a field trial where we can see the dogs they are amped up and control is marginal. The lack of DA is hereditary. Aggressive dogs are scratched.
I think I may have gone astray.

Chris Mercer

[BringBackup]

I went to an event in my area this weekend, and tried my dog on the Splash Dog dock. I was quite alarmed that everyone had to unleash their dog during a turn and there was no barrier. My boy is not out right dog aggressive, but if another dog gets in his face he will light up immediately and engage. When it was our turn, I attempted to leave the leash on my dog, but they made me take it off. We showed him how to use the exit ramp first and then took him on the dock. I threw the toy off the dock, and of course he ran down the steps (a gate would have been nice!) and got into the pool by way of the ramp. I freaked, because my dog was off leash in a crowd full of dogs. No one else seemed to have a problem with this?! He is such fortunately he is a toy driven fucker, and he didn't care about anything but getting the tennis ball. But a dog with a little more DA than him might have taken the chance to scrap with another dog near the pool. I think events like this have room for improvement.

[Dansgrizz]

Thanks for the info BB, that sounds like a scary story. Your fortunate he's not a cruise missile lol.

[DeidreM]

Chris, no, not astray at all - very good sense and pertinent to the topic and your particular breed. Thanks. Deidre

[DeidreM]

Yes, the point I was making was that even a well trained dog can react if put in the right situation, and that you have to be vigilant of other people not watching their dogs at all times.

George Bailey
Yes, I understood the point and good point indeed.

[DeidreM]

I went to an event in my area this weekend, and tried my dog on the Splash Dog dock. I was quite alarmed that everyone had to unleash their dog during a turn and there was no barrier. My boy is not out right dog aggressive, but if another dog gets in his face he will light up immediately and engage. When it was our turn, I attempted to leave the leash on my dog, but they made me take it off. We showed him how to use the exit ramp first and then took him on the dock. I threw the toy off the dock, and of course he ran down the steps (a gate would have been nice!) and got into the pool by way of the ramp. I freaked, because my dog was off leash in a crowd full of dogs. No one else seemed to have a problem with this?! He is such fortunately he is a toy driven fucker, and he didn't care about anything but getting the tennis ball. But a dog with a little more DA than him might have taken the chance to scrap with another dog near the pool. I think events like this have room for improvement.
Unbelievable stupidity but certainly reflective of today's popular training climate .. the dogs can work it all outfar better than we can if we interfere, right? not you, you the one with good sense and right to be wary and worried.

[chris mercer]

Man, that's funny only in a ;god I'm glad that's over, kind of way. I'm not worried about my hounds being DA but what I am worried about is that the two clubs I e-mailed haven't returned my letters. I want to reduce all of the unknowns in a situation before I let my dog's participate. This was a club practice event? I guess the rules didn't apply? What I read all dogs are to be leashed or crated and only loose when participating. Sounds like a cluster fuck. It goes back to that our dogs must be crotch sniffing buds.
So he ran down the stairs, smart dog.

Chris Mercer

[RileyRoo]

Splash Dog rules:
The Splash Dogs Rules Committee recently met to discuss the existing rules for Splash Dogs. We have made some clarifications to the 2008 Rules & Regulations which will take affect as noted below. The updated Splash Dogs Rules & Regulations will be posted on the Splash Dog website within the next few days.

Thank you,
The Splash Dogs Rules Committee

2008 Rule Changes, Clarifications and Upcoming Enforcements

1.) We have revised and will be enforcing a new Collars & Leash rule for the safety of all Splash Dog participants. A grace period of three events will be given.

Collars & Leashes
While in the competition area, all dogs must be kept on a leash that is not longer than 6 feet. All dogs should be kept under close handler control, please keep your dog to yourself without prior consent from the other person. Long lines and retractable leashes are not allowed on the dock or in the competition area.

Revised to:
While in the competition area, all dogs must be kept on a leash that is not longer than 4 feet. All dogs should be kept under close handler control, please keep your dog to yourself without prior consent from the other person. Long lines and retractable leashes are not allowed on the dock or in the competition area.

2.) We have revised the rule that states the Team may receive a rejump if the dog jumps prior to the toy being thrown or dog being cued. This will remain at the judges discretion however due to time constraints at events we have a added a clause on repeat offenders. This rule will take affect immediately.

The Distance/Scoring
Jumps are considered official once the handler cues the dog to proceed with the jump. If the dog jumps prior to being cued, the Team may receive a re-run, per the judge’s discretion. Once the toy has been thrown, if the dog enters the water via the exit ramp, side of the dock or any other option available, the team will be given a score of 0.00”. If the dog refuses to jump, the team will receive a score of 0’ 00”. All scores will be used to rank each Team within the competition Wave, highest to lowest.

Revised to:
Jumps are considered official once the handler cues the dog to proceed with the jump. If the dog jumps prior to being cued or the toy being thrown, the Team may receive a re-run, per the judge’s discretion. Repeat offenders may not be allowed a re-jump if the judge has determined the team has a clear pattern of negligence to this rule.

3.) We have revised the rule on Handler Substitution. This rule will take affect immediately.

The Competition Team
If a dog is entered in one event by more than one handler, only the handler with the highest score may advance to the finals. If the handler is not able to attend the finals, the dog may be entered with an alternate handler.

Revised to:
Handler Subsititution
Handler substitutions are allowed as long as the confirmed change has been made with the registration desk prior to the start of the competition wave. If a dog is entered in an event by more than one handler and qualifies for the finals round, the dog will qualify for the finals with its highest jump, regardless of the handler. If a handler subsititution is requested in the finals, the substitute handler must have competed with the dog in at least one wave for which the finals round is associated

4.) We will be enfocing the following rule for Super Vertical immediately due to safety reasons.

Super Vertical Competition Flow
The number of dog / handler Teams will be limited to 16 per event. Each dog / handler Team will make a maximum of two back-to-back attempts at grabbing the bumper from the Extender at 2 inch increments in height. Due to safety, we ask that all dogs run naked in Super Vertical. This is without any collar, harness or clothing of any type.

Revised to:
The number of dog / handler Teams will be limited to 16 per event. Each dog / handler Team will make a maximum of two back-to-back attempts at grabbing the bumper from the Extender at 2 inch increments in height. Due to safety, we ask that all dogs run naked in Super Vertical. This means without any type of collar, harness or clothing, including bandannas or vests.


2009 Rule Changes, Clarifications and Upcoming Enforcements

1.) Super Air will have a time limit. The following rule will take affect November 3, 2008 and will be added to 2009 Rules.

There will be a 3 minute time limit on the dock per dog/handler team per jump.
- The timer will start as soon as the competition team enters the dock.
- At smaller events, the judge may elect to to give new teams more time to get into the water, however at the 3 minute time limit, the jump will earn a NO JUMP score. The additional time is to allow a new dog to be successful.
------------------------------
DockDogs Rules:
http://www.dockdogs.com/Rules_Policies.pdf
--------------------------------------------------------------

sounds right to me to have the dog OFF leash on the jumping dock (oiy, lol!) also, If people can't control their dogs or are in constant fear of DA then get the fuck off the dock and stay out of the sport
AND while we are on the topic of DA and Dockdiving why not critic AGILITY (an offleash sport), FLYBALL (off leash sport), DISCDOG, (off leash sport), SCH (Off leash sport) while we are at it then because to say those sports are any diffrent would makeeveryone Hypocritical. My point here is you have to KNOW your dog and what makes them tick, you need to have control over them and if you fear DA so much don't even bother with sports period. what is so hard about that?

-----------------------------------------------------------
and........for one.


1.Dogs are trained well
2. Dogs have focus on their PREY (The toy)
3. If a dog wasnt focused ON the task of retrieving then what the fuck is it doing on the dock in the first place and at a competition no less!?
4. OBVIOUSLY, if a dog is focused on other dogs and isnt working why have it in that sport? (commonsense people! use your brains!)

I wouldn't take my dog to a wp competition and latch it to a cart if it wasnt interested in the sport or what I ask of it to do and if it were clearly focused on nothing but dogs and not controlled then that dog IMO is unfit to compete in sports all together. the same goes with any. Not all sports are for everyone but understanding and being educated and opening up to learn and know the sport is something every dog lover should do not be a Bias and ridicual others SPORTS and what they enjoy doing with their dogs.

Yes, you guys have a right to be aware and cautious but commonsense says if a dog is DA and NOT focused on a task why would it step foot on a dock or a field? THAT would be a mistake on an ignorant owner forcing the dog to take part in a sport it will fail at.

[chris mercer]

I'll have to say your right. I read the post over again and the only dogs loose were on the dock. Seems fair enough if you're going to run,jump and swim.

C mercer

[kg420]

Good post RileyRoo. :D Where we are going for the training classes all dogs get a turn learning to jump. They get about 15 mins a piece and all other dogs MUST be crated while others are learning to jump. So even though we will be at the lake all the dogs will be safe. They also require the dogs to be obedience trained before registering for classes, so you can't just have a wild unruly dog running around.

[RileyRoo]

exactly Kg, no dog is ever off leash unless on the dock on their wave. If people need to know anything to settle their minds they should read the rules first.

[smith family kennels]

ok I have to say this and when I do people should chose to listen. Dogs are dogs they all have a fight or flight instinct regardless of the breed but this breed has more of a fight instinct I have yet to meet a pitbull type dog that didnt have it in them when the occasion was given to them. Example: Your at a disc competition your dog is competiting and doing its job. Another dog gets lose and runs out on the field. Bingo there you go.
And it happens people Most DA dogs can compete with the proper obidence training but it can still happens. This example came from a pitbull dog that does do disc competions a well known one at that. Its Wallace. He was competing and another dog got lose. Luckly they got te other dog off the field before anything happened but that doesnt mean it wouldnt happen. All it takes is a slipped collar or a snappy dog.

Hell lets take the pitbull out of it

You walk your golden retriever past a german sheppard that is extra barky today and your goldren retriever decides he doesnt like his attuide.

all dogs have it in them and shit does happen but that doesnt mean that DA dogs cant compete in most sports. The pitbull is not the only type of dog that shows dog aggression and the other dogs are allowed to compete. The trick is never trust yoru dog not to attack, Drill in obidence, RECALL can be a beautiful thing but dont expect it to always work, and Safety control at the event. I beleive there definetly should be a gate there lol. Also distance between dogs. You know like weight pull has. It has a compete area, a on deck area, and then an area to ready your dogs where all the other dogs are crated. I don't care what breed its not safe to have a crap load of dogs together in one area. This breed and many others were bred to be agressive this one just more than others. Dont expect them not to be DA because they will if tested to do so.

So my point is this ........

DA aggressive dogs should be allowed to compete in sports but should have obidence training to do so and know how they should behave There are many dogs out there that are very dog aggressive but you would never know it because of extensive training.

Second every dog owner should know that dogs are dogs and just cause your cuddly little pet has never acted a fool doesnt mean it wont. instinct people

and third all dog sporting events should focus on those things and the safetly of all the dogs in all breeds of dogs.

[RileyRoo]

yes, we all know this about dogs. pitdogs, labs, ect...which i why I say if owners cannot control their dogs leave them out of sports, if they themselves cannot control their dog they have NO business being in an event period for the safty of the breed and the dogs around them. Hell, someone who owns an untrained APBT or any breed souldn't even be owning a dog period!

[smith family kennels]

i agree on that part to an extent all dogs should have training but that doesnt stop the accidents which is why all dog sports should take every thought into safety of the dogs when setting up events also. And all dog owners should have the though in their minds that any breed of dog will attack if given the right oppuruntity and most dog owners of different breeds don't Example. I went to a local show and some lady had two of her dogs off leash playing in the parking lot. Second example a lady walked up to shake another lady's hand waiting in line to go in a show ring and the dogs were prettymuch on top of each other neither example were pitbull type dogs. One dog could have easily pissed the other dog off. I mean people are thought less in this sitution. People of most other breeds dotn think about these things. And when you have DA dogs of any breed its nothing for someone to walk up and say hi with their dog and just let the dog run up to yours.

As far as events. I am a firm believer that all sport events need a set up where other dogs are not visable when competing and a area to get ready with out other dogs should be made.

[RileyRoo]

as I do agree with you on some parts I think it would be hard to avoid considering events like showing wouldn't be possible without a ring of dogs. there is no way for a sport to fully rid dogs from an area since dogs and their viewers are welcome along with the competition dogs and handlers.it is a full out dog friendly event much like alot of other sports and while there could be an accident that is where the "Handlers" come into play and correct and be aware. I feel if a dog isnt focused on the toy it wont jump far and wont be into it so a dog that is more focused on another dog and not doing the tast asked wont get far and should be releaved of that sport. there are other sports that that dog can do.

here is a real APBT named Rajah.
YouTube- Rajah, the amazing flying American Pit Bull Terrier


again this sport isnt for the dounce minded, clueless owner who cant abid to the rules and cannot fully control their dog (Pit or not)
certainly isnt for the pet owner who just wants to join a competition without practice with a club.

[chris mercer]

I may be a bit of a dunce myself but I pride myself in abiding by the rules of fair play in dog sports. When in the ring of field I try to have a positive attitude and impart it into my fellow competitors. Yes, I want to win but having such a Dour attitude only harms myself.
C. Mercer

[Nizmo357]

I have this problem with maverick on the track, if he so much as sees a dog on the way to the track he won't pull and keeps fixating on the dog. I'm glad he's harnessed in, I think as his DA increases he will squirm out the harness. I have to strategically place mavs crate, keep it covered until the lastinute and time my trip to the track perfectly... I wouldnt risk dock jumping with mav cuz mavs too damn fast and he fixates on dogs far more than the task at hand. Plus, although dock jumping is "fun" it proves nothing in my eyes about the APBT.

IMO it proves how versatile the APBT can be. and how they can excel at any task put in front of them. its good to see these dogs in other sports it sheds a positive light on to the breeds IMO. it shows all the people that "pitbulls" can do anything, not just WP conformation.

[smith family kennels]

like i said before this is my concern for the sport. Alot of other sports have taken the time to remove other dogs from close view of the ring. Imnot saying they arent there they are but its enough not to distract the other dogs. And conformation doesnt count imo its a beauty show not a sport and they dont do it off leash.

For me they are stuck in the same boat as agility they haven't quite put the dog out of sight out of mind thought into it like many other sports are finally starting to do. Regardless of how much training a dog has it can still get distracted and like all dog sporting events its about achieving a goal. Its about succeeding and not letting your dog fail in something. Why set your dog up for that chance of failure when one can handler slips up and let go of their dog. All that work and all that time you spent ....... your going to have to start over from that point on. Cause after that every time your dog goes to compete he or she is going to be looking for that other dog and distracted.

I have a dog trained in agility she has her cgc she has been around other dogs since she was 8 weeks old buttt i havent let her compete because of event safety. I have another one I would love to finish training for the same thing but havent even bothered because of event safety. And my example of how easy control is lost is this. The cgc dog who was placed in a stay a dog that never breaks her stay decided it was her turn to play anyways and left her stay postion. This is a dog that stay was drilled into her head from 8 weeks old and she is 3 now. Stay and leave it where our key commands because she loves her toys and she loves the attention of people. She ran into another dogs play time. And when she found out that she couldnt have the toy that it wasnt hers to play with she wasnt very happy. Thank god for leave it and a recall cause it could have been bad.

I am not knocking dock diving by no means I think its great but I will not be the one to drop the hat for everybody and take that chance because I am not satisfied with the events safety. Do you get what I am saying. As a owner of this breed for several years and owning 9 at the moment. I know where my place is with this breed and intil changes are made in some events and i feel comfortable that I can let my dog off leash and wont have to worry about other handlers and their dogs close to my competition area or when I can ask for them to move back from the area of the ring of performance then I will consider that giant step but im not going to take my dogs who i have 2 and 3 years training and then go into a ring and set them up for failure from somebody elses mistake.

I realize I have DA dogs. I realize its the breed. And I know no matter how much I train my dogs there is still going to be that chance that right moment and under right cirumstances that it can happen. That is something that everyone of this breed has to realize it still can happen and you have to ask yourself do you want to take that chance and be the person that dropped the ball and screwed it up for the rest of the breed in that sport because it can happen reguardless of how much control you have over your dog.

Your right they can succeed in anything. I am confincend there isnt anything they cant succeed in but is it worth putting a public eye on. Is it worth the risk of one accident that can destory it for all the others. Now im not saying it would be you by no means lol Im saying it can be anyone. And I personally am not up for that risk and wont take it until the event its self has taken more caution in DA dogs that are competing of any breed.

A out of sight holding area is the key to that. its for the safety of all dogs and has nothing to do with just our breed but all breeds. A bunch of dogs in an area in view of the competing dog is just asking for trouble. Cause in the end they are still animals and dogs will be dogs.

[kg420]

Here is a pic from one of the docks. They have made new rules and safety measures.

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy320/Cali-girl420/DockView.jpg

The dock is totally closed up and they have the side blockers on them too. They are also making all dogs stay in their crates until it's their turn to go on the dock. They also have a crate area that isn't visible to the dogs who are jumping. I'm not sure about every where but up here in my area they are taking many more safety measures so that no one or their dogs gets hurt.

[Nizmo357]

thats awesome crystal.

i agree that sports in which dogs compete in need to be sectioned off so that dogs cannot see any other dogs. it could be kind of a handy cap if they dont take the necessary safety precautions if you get what i mean.

but i really do agree with you SFK.

[smith family kennels]

thats good and I hope they do it every where its what the sport needs and what many other sports need as well.

[kg420]

I agree the safety of every one need to be #1. I think their getting their stuff together now. The Splash Dogs group we signed up with sounds like they are very safe with the new rules and regulations. All we are doing right now is just training classes, but I'd love to compete in the future when we feel we are ready and the events have the right safety areas and crate rules.

[sw_df27]

I know a guy that does splash dog on another forum if you ever see a APBT named maximus that's him they have been doing splash dog for years!

[RileyRoo]

I am not gonna lie...they have all sorts of styles of docks. some have whole gates, some half, some none. depends but if someone were afraid a trained dockdog was to jump off a dock to attack a dog then they donot know the sport or the dogs.

Yes, some have DA dogs but not everyone so it is safe to say if you hate the sport and what it's about then so be it, if you have dogs that are that DA then this sport isnt for them and trying to rip it apart and give it a bad name and what it represents is just sad. cautious, aware, sharp owners are always needed no matter what they are doing. you donot have to agree with me, you don't have to like the sport but respect people who are doing Positive things for this breed please.

[smith family kennels]

I did not do any of that. I did not say i hated the sport. I did not say that I didnt have respect for it and I certainly did not rip it apart and etc.

What I said is that all owners of all breeds of DA dogs need to use caution in all sports not just dock diving and dock diving just like agility needs to make changes in the sport for the safetly of all dogs. Thats what I said. Go reread it all. You have to understand were I come from and you have to understand the chances you take not only for the sport but the breed. I am saying that you should use caution and beware of what can ahppen and also that they sport needs to make changes which kg420 has told me they are doing. Thats great that they are doing it every sport needs to put safetly first. Please never take anything I say out of context like that. I am the last person in this world that wants to fight with you I just want to educate you and others and make sure you understand the risk anyone takes with this breed when they enter them in dog sporting events that dont have good safetly rules and how easy it is to lose control. The dog I had that disobeyed her stay wasnt a apbt she was an amstaff same difference but she is not DA but can get protective over toys and is a attentive driven dog. One that wont hesitate to butt her nose in Another words shes one of those dont start nothing wont be nothing dogs but its my toy and im going to take it type dogs. Try to understand what im trying to do. Im not dissing anyone or any sport Im educating.

[infinity]

I think 5 pages of this is enough.

Closed...