So you got me

[kumhomomma]

well prior to getting kumho i assumed those round bullies were "SUPPOSE" to show a true APBT well in chat I actually said a dog link was "too bully" and looking at dogs on myspace I came across this http://www.myspace.com/redlionkennel I would have been all over that dog but now I honestly thought wtf they doing to those poor pups and dog.I am sorry but they look nasty to me now even the ol english is like um...NO now.SO thanks for helping me grow into the knowledge of the breed

[american_pitbull13]

Redlion is a very poor representation of an American bully. They have terrible front legs with narrow hind ends. They are not what a well bred bully should look like. For example my female pictured below, Slim, is a very nicely put together American Bully.


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/american_pitbull13/IMG_3392.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/american_pitbull13/CIMG3584.jpg

[infinity]

well while we are bully friendly here. I cant help but feel bad for ones that were breed for extrmeme looks. It couses all kinds of health problems. Also when they are breed like this they still think the dog is in a position to "protect" as i seen in one of the comments on there. When if fact thats not true at all any more. The ability was breed out and what they think looks good was breed in. APBT's and correct bullies look nothing like that. But we all know this. While a funny thing is a breed to standerd APBT is one of the least threating looking med to large breed of dogs. Especially when left uncroped.. They look funny and goofy like scooby doo. But man these dogs have game. ABPT was never breed for looks. But instead they were breed for ability. Fortunatly at least to me they still look good.

Oh on a side note. while pits can and do protect its not what they were breed for ether. They are to ppl friendly to be a conventinal gaurd dog. And training one to do the job is harder and goes agianst the dogs instincs more so than other breeds, like rotties, dobies, german sheps.

[belindabone]

Redlion is a very poor representation of an American bully. They have terrible front legs with narrow hind ends. They are not what a well bred bully should look like. For example my female pictured below, Slim, is a very nicely put together American Bully.


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/american_pitbull13/IMG_3392.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/american_pitbull13/CIMG3584.jpgyea,i have to agree.some of the bullies i see are so bowed in their front legs i dont see how they can even stand.its gross looking,and i cant believe that people think that that is attractive in the first place.what makes their legs get so bowed anyway??

[kumhomomma]

guess i need to clear it up...When i got kumho,Christy and reddog spent HOURS trying to tell me differents between Game and bullies and so on.Then red sunk it into my head VERY CLEARLY with photos.With kumho I wanted Super Bully what I got was a well put together(least I think so) bully and in the end Im truely thankful for that.I am very happy with my boogie head.NOW i am looking at "super" bullies not as APBT but like WTF did they do to that dog.Let me cut you off at the knees and add 200 pounds to your back and see you tote it around. I use to LOVE LOVE LOVE ENGLISH bulldogs till I seen all the common issues with them and the poor "red lion" puppies I posted.LOOK at them..they look sickly.I LOVE a well put together or even fat bully but I believe if someone signed up here with a "super" bully and attemted to talk it up we would trash them.SO yeah Bully welcome but not "hybrid" stupid breeder happy poor dog bullies UNLESS THEY ARE IN RESCUE OR NEW HOME CARE who didn't make them that way.

[kumhomomma]

http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq271/AE86Taylor/pk10.jpg
Kumho says I got my eye on you talking about me..LOL

[Dansgrizz]

yea,i have to agree.some of the bullies i see are so bowed in their front legs i dont see how they can even stand.its gross looking,and i cant believe that people think that that is attractive in the first place.what makes their legs get so bowed anyway??

It could be many things... Inbreeding, outcrossing to breeds like the EB, most of all though breeding for the wrong trait over n over. Dogs got these "double stacked" genetics which makes it very easy for the genetics to change from one generation to the other, more so than any other species on this planet. This is shown in how many diverse dog breeds we have and how domesticated the dog is today. The good news is it's easy to ruin a dog breed but there's always hopes of getting it back. If someone wanted to they could make one he'll of a dog out of the bully in 25-50 years and have a noticable differnce in 10 only 3-4 generations. Sadly, the people who breed these poor animals are too caught up in style themselves to care about function or health. These breeders must not be bashed or driven away they must be educated. We are brothers and sisters in BSL, together we are strong but divided we will fail miserably.

[kumhomomma]

true i guess dan but its hell to educate the one with all answers getting 3 grand per pup..But hey we need to try i guess SORRY to open this thread this totally flip from what i was trying to say..

[Dansgrizz]

true i guess dan but its hell to educate the one with all answers getting 3 grand per pup..But hey we need to try i guess SORRY to open this thread this totally flip from what i was trying to say..

Our job isn't easy. Sure they get 3g's for a pup but they need to learn bull dogs (gosh are they really....sigh.....) are meant for more than holding down a dog bed and gasping for air. These are the ultimate working dogs. No matter what shape and size they come in there standard should be geared towards work and supremacy.

[Leon]

All dogs are bred for a purpose. And breeding for looks is equally legitimate as breeding for protection or working simply because dogs to and enjoy what they are bred to do.

Most people would consider pit fighting to be cruel and barbaric, but dogs bred for the pit enjoy being in the pit, dogs bred to pull sled's enjoy pulling sleds, and a dog bred to look good, enjoys lying around doing nothing and looking good.

You cant look at a bully and say poor dog because he looks funny and might have health issues, because then you have to say poor dog to a lot of other breeds as well. I don't see anyone saying poor dog when they see Great Danes, heck they on average they have waaay worse health issues than bullies. So are great Danes poorly bred? Imo poorly bred means breeding for flaws themselves, like breeding for blue eyes.

So in essence you cant really use anything against breeding for looks. You cant use health because, dogs bred for protection and work are unhealthy due to the nature of their work, so overall in terms of physical health it evens out down the life of the dog, and heavy boned dogs tend to have certain issues down the road, so it cant be used against short bullies. You cant say people are doing it to make profit because once again every dog is bred to benefit the owner in some form or fashion.

BUT, what does get me and i completely disapprove of is taking a existing breed, gutting everything that made the breed, like conformation and temperament, and calling it a better version of the breed. NO NO NO...you have a new breed of dog, something that evolved out of the old breed..its still a new breed. Don't market it as the old breed. Why the hell are bullies registered and marketed as APBT's? :mad:

[Dansgrizz]

true i guess dan but its hell to educate the one with all answers getting 3 grand per pup..But hey we need to try i guess SORRY to open this thread this totally flip from what i was trying to say..

I'm glad your learning of what a good dog looks like. Funny when these PETA and HSUS "rescue" these "emaciated" dogs from people who are "preserving the breed" the vets report often say the dogs are FAR healthier than your average over fed house ornament. The APBT may be an aquired taste but to me it's delicious.

[Leon]

I'm glad your learning of what a good dog looks like.

What a good dog looks like is pure opinion and nothing more.

[Dansgrizz]

All dogs are bred for a purpose. And breeding for looks is equally legitimate as breeding for protection or working simply because dogs to and enjoy what they are bred to do.

Most people would consider pit fighting to be cruel and barbaric, but dogs bred for the pit enjoy being in the pit, dogs bred to pull sled's enjoy pulling sleds, and a dog bred to look good, enjoys lying around doing nothing and looking good.

You cant look at a bully and say poor dog because he looks funny and might have health issues, because then you have to say poor dog to a lot of other breeds as well. I don't see anyone saying poor dog when they see Great Danes, heck they on average they have waaay worse health issues than bullies. So are great Danes poorly bred? Imo poorly bred means breeding for flaws themselves, like breeding for blue eyes.

So in essence you cant really use anything against breeding for looks. You cant use health because, dogs bred for protection and work are unhealthy due to the nature of their work, so overall in terms of physical health it evens out down the life of the dog, and heavy boned dogs tend to have certain issues down the road, so it cant be used against short bullies. You cant say people are doing it to make profit because once again every dog is bred to benefit the owner in some form or fashion.

BUT, what does get me and i completely disapprove of is taking a existing breed, gutting everything that made the breed, like conformation and temperament, and calling it a better version of the breed. NO NO NO...you have a new breed of dog, something that evolved out of the old breed..its still a new breed. Don't market it as the old breed. Why the hell are bullies registered and marketed as APBT's? :mad:

Well leon lets pick this apart LOL Great Danes original purpose was a hog and boar hunting dog. It was much larger boned and its tuck wasnt as high but it was still a large dog. It work was rough and the breed was also. So IMO yes the Great Dane in its show form is a horribly bred dog. ANYTIME you breed a dog for looks instead of purpose. You have a bad bred dog. Great Danes, EBs, Boxers, Bullys.... they all fit into this category. The breed could have been kept intact but someone wanted to go for looks instead of health.

Dogs are not unhealthy do to the nature of there work. Dogs can have health risks such as broken bones, cuts, and other fatal injuries. Totally different.

It is the lazy who breed a dog for looks and money. Health and Standards should come before everything. I dont mind a dog bred for show but you CAN breed for looks, health, and working ability. It just takes longer, people who breed these low rider type dogs without health testing of any sort wont be in this breed for long. After a few generations there dogs wont be healthy enough to breed. Many people have decided all the dogs out there arent for them and make there own. The bandogges, The donovan pinscher, and several other new breeds. All these dogs are much better specimens than our friends with the AmBullys. I own and ambully and while it is "well put together" i notice he has several flaws that to the untrained eye are unseen. His heart rate is slow to come down which gives him horrible recovery time. His chest is deep and wide so his wind should be good, but because of his naturally high fat content (which im constantly trying to get lower) his endurance is poor. People wh breed a working breed jsut for looks is not ok. People who breed ANY breed jsut for looks is not ok. There are too many things to consider health, temperment, conformation(bully doesnt have a "real" standard), ability.

[Dansgrizz]

What a good dog looks like is pure opinion and nothing more.

A good dog should be healthy, it should meet its standard, it should have a stable temperment. Most AmBullys meet none of these requirements. ESPECIALLY when someone is calling them an "APBT". If you want to call it an AmBully fine. It doesnt make the dog any healthier or stable.

[kumhomomma]

NEXT question when a Bully go to bully status? I mean Kumho bully but not foot off ground and round like a piggie..does he belong to the new breed or the apbt? I mean kumho has more similarities with APBT then he does those piggy bullies...

[christySYK]

bully is defined by bloodline.
Gotti, RE, New Watchdog, new Camelot, Remi, Short Shot, Gaff, Greyline, ect ect

Every once in a while these lines can throwback to a great looking dog, proportioned and greatly resembling the APBT, its just the genetics of it all.

If you want am AmBully I am more than fine with that, doesnt bother me one bit they are great PETS for the most part. I have seen some that work but they just aren't put together to handle weight pull, or fly ball, or Sch, or most 'dog' sports.

[Leon]

Well leon lets pick this apart LOL Great Danes original purpose was a hog and boar hunting dog. It was much larger boned and its tuck wasnt as high but it was still a large dog. It work was rough and the breed was also. So IMO yes the Great Dane in its show form is a horribly bred dog. ANYTIME you breed a dog for looks instead of purpose. You have a bad bred dog. Great Danes, EBs, Boxers, Bullys.... they all fit into this category. The breed could have been kept intact but someone wanted to go for looks instead of health.

Since all breeding is done for a purpose, its only badly bred when it does NOT meet that purpose. It can also be debated that..If a person wants to breed a dog with one leg...i dont see how you can consider it badly bred when that was the intention of the breeding.

Your claims that dogs bred for show are horribly bred is simply false. They fit the purpose they are bred to do. Everything else is simply opinion.


Dogs are not unhealthy do to the nature of there work. Dogs can have health risks such as broken bones, cuts, and other fatal injuries. Totally different.

Both dogs are bred with intention, and when they develop health risks because of this intention its the same. Sure you can breed a working dog and not work it, let it stay at home and be safe, but you can also breed a bully to be slightly taller and leaner to avoid most of the bone and joint issues.


It is the lazy who breed a dog for looks and money.

Its also the lazy who breed their dogs to fight. Perhaps these dogmen could take to the pits themselves. You can make the case for anything, Dogs are bred to serve people, if no one was lazy...we wouldn't even need working dogs.


Health and Standards should come before everything.

Standards are set by people how they see fit. If a dog does not fit your standard does not mean they are badly bred.

Health is important..but i don't see bully breeders breed for bad health. I only see them breed a dog to fit their standard, and the health risks are a part of it. And these health risks come with any big boned dog. Weather game bred or show bred. To say its ok to breed a large dog to work and not for show, when both will have same health issues because of their size is ridiculous and hypocritical.


I dont mind a dog bred for show but you CAN breed for looks, health, and working ability.

Of course you can...but the APBT is not bred for looks. And if people want to sacrifice looks for working ability, let them. But just don't call it a APBT.


It just takes longer, people who breed these low rider type dogs without health testing of any sort wont be in this breed for long. After a few generations there dogs wont be healthy enough to breed.

According to your logic, many large breeds should have gone extinct by now. Breeding is done in a controlled environment, this is not the wild where survival of the fittest applies. If it was 99% of all dog breeds would be extinct and we will only have mutts.


Many people have decided all the dogs out there arent for them and make there own. The bandogges, The donovan pinscher, and several other new breeds. All these dogs are much better specimens than our friends with the AmBullys.

In your opinion, don't pass it off as fact.


I own and ambully and while it is "well put together" i notice he has several flaws that to the untrained eye are unseen. His heart rate is slow to come down which gives him horrible recovery time. His chest is deep and wide so his wind should be good, but because of his naturally high fat content (which im constantly trying to get lower) his endurance is poor.

Those are not flaws, those are part of the ambully breed. If your complaining about those, why even get an ambully?


People wh breed a working breed jsut for looks is not ok. People who breed ANY breed jsut for looks is not ok. There are too many things to consider health, temperment, conformation(bully doesnt have a "real" standard), ability.

If you want health, get a mix, they are generally a lot more healthier than pure breeds. Temperament cannot be guaranteed in any breed, and i dont see anything wrong with am bullies temperment. And confirmation is set by people how they see fit.


A good dog should be healthy, it should meet its standard, it should have a stable temperment. Most AmBullys meet none of these requirements. ESPECIALLY when someone is calling them an "APBT". If you want to call it an AmBully fine. It doesnt make the dog any healthier or stable.

Ambullies are as healthy as the average large big boned dog. They meet the standard set for am bullies. And they have a stable temperament, You need to explain how they DONT have stable temperament.

[Dansgrizz]

What does Kumhos pedigree look like? that will tell you.... Grizz is an Amstaff/ APBT cross... i call him a bully because he has Juan Gotti a bunch in his pedigree. So he is a bully. If Juan Gotti wasnt in there i would call him an Amstaff. Maverick is an APBT. He does have some Amstaff in his blood BUT it was tested and proven game so i call him an APBT.

[Dansgrizz]

what is the purpose of an ambully leon?

The reason i ask is because the breed was not started with a specific standard... they jsut kind of make it up as they go along these days.

[Leon]

what is the purpose of an ambully leon?

To look good. Like most other dogs. Even though most dogs where bred for a real purpose, but that was a looooooooooooong time ago. 99% of these dogs do not serve their purpose, nor do they carry the same traits as their ancestors, other than conformation. So what is the purpose of any pure breed dog? Technology has replaced dogs in all their intended purposes or their purpose has been obsolete.

[christySYK]

I always assumed the purpose of an AmBully was as a pet, to still have something Pit-Like without the DA and intense energy. More of a family friendly dog.

[Dansgrizz]

To look good. Like most other dogs. Even though most dogs where bred for a real purpose, but that was a looooooooooooong time ago. 99% of these dogs do not serve their purpose, nor do they carry the same traits as their ancestors, other than conformation. So what is the purpose of any pure breed dog? Technology has replaced dogs in all their intended purposes or their purpose has been obsolete.

"TO LOOK GOOD" is an opinion not a purpose. MANY MANY MANY people use dogs in work. To heard, To catch, To rescue, To search, To retrieve, To Flush game, To find game. A dogs nose is BETTER than any other scent detector we have in the world today and cant be replaced by technology. As far as 99% of dogs not carrying there ancestros traits thats an outlandish statement. You have to remember the industrial revolution wasnt so long ago and before that people relied on dogs to do many things in there daily lives. So this loooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago isnt so long ago.

[Dansgrizz]

I always assumed the purpose of an AmBully was as a pet, to still have something Pit-Like without the DA and intense energy. More of a family friendly dog.

If this is true i dont see ANY bully breeders breeding dogs that are temperment tested.

[christySYK]

Most people/breeders don't temperment test their dogs.

Why did YOU get an AmBully if you are so against them?

[Leon]

"TO LOOK GOOD" is an opinion not a purpose. MANY MANY MANY people use dogs in work. To heard, To catch, To rescue, To search, To retrieve, To Flush game, To find game. A dogs nose is BETTER than any other scent detector we have in the world today and cant be replaced by technology. As far as 99% of dogs not carrying there ancestros traits thats an outlandish statement. You have to remember the industrial revolution wasnt so long ago and before that people relied on dogs to do many things in there daily lives. So this loooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago isnt so long ago.

Looking good is a opinion. But when you breed for a specific look, it is the purpose of the breeding.

You don't need to work your dogs anymore. The ONLY reason people use dogs for scent is because its cheaper to buy and train a dog than you buy an instrument that can cost you twice as much. But as technology evolves, dogs will be completely phased out of real working, and only be used for show working and as pets.

Other than physical traits, modern working dogs are just a shell of their ancestors. There are very few places in the world where they actually work their dogs. But when it comes to the majority, they are nothing compared to their ancestors. You don't do what your dog is meant to do, so you cant say my dog is like this dog who fought in the pit 30 yrs ago. Far from it.

[kumhomomma]

im still lost but christy history lesson on am staff helped me thanks chick

[Dansgrizz]

Im not against the ambully. I am against people who claim to be selling a superior dog but dont test it whatsoever. I am against people who are selling the AmBully and call it an APBT. I am agaisnt breeders who breed for 1 thing and 1 thing only. LOOKS. I simply feel if in your breed description which i found here....
http://caninecity.17.forumer.com/a/the-abkc-standard-for-american-bullies_post20.html

You claim to be breeding..... The American Bully is a breed established in the mid 1990’s with the purpose of creating the ultimate family companion. You should certainly back it up with CGC (thanks christy) testing every dog that is bred. as far as..... The American Bully breed possesses the loyalty and stability of the American Pit Bull Terrier while retaining the sociable, amiable, and outgoing temperament of the American Staffordshire Terrier breed. I dont think there is anyway of testing a bullies loyalty or stability if it lays around the house all day. It should be tested to its standard.

[christySYK]

I'm curious why every thread has to turn into an arguement. And what is CKC testing? Do you mean CGC? Which isn't a temperment test its an obedience test.

Kat I hope we answered the origional question for you.

[Dansgrizz]

Looking good is a opinion. But when you breed for a specific look, it is the purpose of the breeding.

You don't need to work your dogs anymore. The ONLY reason people use dogs for scent is because its cheaper to buy and train a dog than you buy an instrument that can cost you twice as much. But as technology evolves, dogs will be completely phased out of real working, and only be used for show working and as pets.

Other than physical traits, modern working dogs are just a shell of their ancestors. There are very few places in the world where they actually work their dogs. But when it comes to the majority, they are nothing compared to their ancestors. You don't do what your dog is meant to do, so you cant say my dog is like this dog who fought in the pit 30 yrs ago. Far from it.

There are no sensors that can detect the minute scents a dog can. NOT EVEN CLOSE! thats a fact.

There are many modern working dogs that are kept close to there standards. as far as protection work and obedience work. Dogs today are more refined than ever leon. Working GSDs, Malinois, Donovan Pinschers etc... are becoming more refined and better everyday.

[kumhomomma]

NOPE....lmao but ill just take my camera and send you pictures girlie and you tell me how that dog will turn out..Fair deal? LMAO

[christySYK]

lol yeah sure

[Dansgrizz]

I'm curious why every thread has to turn into an arguement. And what is CKC testing? Do you mean CGC? Which isn't a temperment test its an obedience test.

Kat I hope we answered the origional question for you.

We are having a discussion not an argument if you dont like it please dont post. I meant CGC thank you. What do they test dogs temperment with then? Certainly the temperment test statistics on dogs come from somewhere.

[christySYK]

Here's the temperment test the ADBA is backing.

http://adbadogs.com/p_pdetails.asp?fpid=140&pg=140

[Dansgrizz]

which one does the ABKC back to test the exceptional family dogs?

[Dansgrizz]

straight off the ABKC website .....
TEMPERAMENT:

Very obedient and faithful to its master and family. Very friendly in daytime but very aggressive at night, especially with the persons not known. This dog should be eager, bold, and trusting with no signs of fear or timidity.

[christySYK]

I dunno, do some reseach or email them. I don't have Bullies.

http://www.abkcdogs.com

[kumhomomma]

here the point im going to DIG DEEP AND flip this is american stafford a pit?

[Leon]

There are no sensors that can detect the minute scents a dog can. NOT EVEN CLOSE! thats a fact.

I don't know where you got this from. Mechanical scent detectors have passed dogs a long time ago. Dogs are only used since they are cheaper or the only thing available.

Did you know they have artificial dogs nose for scent detection?

Artificial ‘dog nose’ from Sweden employed in war against drugs (http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?news_id=1869&coun_code=se)

Better Artificial Nose Inspired By Sniffer Dogs (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090213172533.htm)


There are many modern working dogs that are kept close to there standards. as far as protection work and obedience work. Dogs today are more refined than ever leon. Working GSDs, Malinois, Donovan Pinschers etc... are becoming more refined and better everyday.

They can only be kept close to there standard if they are being worked. Once again majority of dogs arnt worked or used for their intended purpose. So over time as these dogs are bred, they go further and further away from their ancestors. Same applies for the APBT's.

[Dansgrizz]

I dunno, do some reseach or email them. I don't have Bullies.

http://www.abkcdogs.com

I jsut figured since you started out in bullies and are so oh so helpful you would know.

[Dansgrizz]

Dogs can sniff cancer... but the sensors cant. I find those findings hard to believe since we still dont know the extent or range of a dogs smell accuratly. We are always finding new uses for it.

[Dansgrizz]

I dunno, do some reseach or email them. I don't have Bullies.

http://www.abkcdogs.com

I emailed them and await my reply.

[christySYK]

Who weren't temperment tested and i didn't worry about it.

Why you have to be so rude all the time?

[Dansgrizz]

Who weren't temperment tested and i didn't worry about it.

Why you have to be so rude all the time?

Im sorry christy i wasnt aware i was being rude. Maybe you are hyper sensitive.

[christySYK]

I jsut figured since you started out in bullies and are so oh so helpful you would know.

Yeah that wasn't rude at all.

[Dansgrizz]

I dont believe it is christy. you started out in bullies you are one of the top posters of useful information on this site. I consider it to me a truthful not rude statement. perhaps you are reading into things to much.

[christySYK]

Uh huh.....

[sw_df27]

oh brother :wtf: must every thread be ripped apart like this? :rolleyes: Sorry your thank you thread that was directed to well mainly christy and a few others................ turned out this way cause someone has a grudge against christy .................................................. .................

[Dansgrizz]

Yes i know SwDf27 it apears christy has a grudge towards me :)

[kumhomomma]

Since i opened it i'll close it with the statement of pull your panties out your ass and move on.....

[christySYK]

Just Email me Kat or catch me Yahoo :)
And you are welcome for the education lol its nice to talk to someone who's willing to take in the information.

[Peanutsmommy]

Please stay on topic

[kumhomomma]

Please stay on topic

Please delete this topic to far gone to help

[Peanutsmommy]

thread closed for review